Are "Hell's Flames Still Hot?

After a one-year break, one of the church's in our town is gearing up for another round of "Heaven's Gates, Hell's Flames" -- the popular evangelistic drama that swept the United States (and parts of Europe) in the 90's. And the amazing (or perhaps, puzzling) thing is that it's still around!

Sure, the production has had it's critics (like this one or this one), but I'd love to hear your thoughts as to why churches and para-church ministries continue to present this drama in today's culture.

Comments

[kevin]

But it makes me feel so good when I can tell the rest of the world why they are going to hell!

:(

[Linea]

I think those presenting this sort of thing see themselves as "good" enough and do not see themselves as sinners saved by the radical grace of God. I think they lack understanding and probably have never experienced the reality of their own failures and their own total dependance on God. A bit like the parable of the debtor who was forgiven much and then went out and was unforgiving of a little debt. Like him they just don't get it - what it means to be forgiven.

[Mykel]

I remember when my old church put this on and how they guilted us into inviting friends.
I never invited my friends because I was embarrassed not at the message (even though the message is horrible) but because of the lame skits and acting in it.
I think that is one of the reasons I started to distance myself from that church.

[Benjy (groovythpstr)]

Personally, I have never seen it. But I have seen others like it. One reason it produces such results is b/c of the visual art involved--the whole thing isn't a lecture.

Just the other day, I was thinking about a play like this we put on at a megachurch I was at. In 4 days, 1200 people accepted Christ or rededicated. But where are those people today? The emphasis on evangelism is changing, thank God. Let's just hope that it changes sooner rather than later. Many churches that are doing these things don't really care about the people, just the numbers.

[Chris (DesertPastor)]

Mykel -- I'm totally relating to your feeling "embarrassed" about inviting friends -- not because the acting was bad, but more due to the strong, underlying nuances of guilt and fear as replacements for conviction. Benjy raises an important question over "where are these thousands of converts today?"

Although, Benjy -- I disagree that churches doing these productions "don't really care about the people, just the numbers" -- I think they really do care, but maybe haven't taken the time to evaluate it all from other perspectives.

[Patmos]

I just found out that our "sister" church in Barstow is putting this on. They sent us flyers and asked us to announce it. I told my pastor that I did not agree with the method of Heavens Gates - Hells Flames and that I would not be telling the youth about this.
He respected my opinion and also is refusing to announce it.
I believe that the church putting this on really cares for people, the pastor is an awesome guy, I just think we sometimes fall into a trap and do things just because "we did it before and it worked!"
How about we listen to God and move with his spirit? If that means doing the same thing again then great but more often then not it isn't.

[DLE]

I'm actually surprised that so many here have been against these kinds of plays, particularly since they are the direct descendents of the morality plays of the pre-Modern era that were one of the primary ways of reaching the masses outside of the churches of the day.

Given the postmodern fascination with story, I would think these plays would be wholeheartedly received, rather than so throroughly rejected.

Perhaps it is solely the issue of Hell that is causing the disapproval. But is not Hell part of the whole Gospel? Why shield people from such knowledge? If the topic of Hell is fair game, then does the argument only come down against the actual "artfulness" of the productions? If that is true, then that's a poor reason for despising them.

[Chris (DesertPastor)]

Dan, I'm not sure that the problem is the "drama" (although it can be cheesy at times),or the subject matter (i.e. hell). Maybe it's the evangelistic "method" in general -- scaring people into making "decisions" rather than inspiring people into "discipleship."

[DLE]

I dunno, DP. You track the nature of revival in the United States and a whole lot of it involved quite a bit of scary talk about Hell. Those old Puritan pastors preached a lot of hellfire.

I guess I am one of those people who believe we ought to tell the whole truth, even the scary parts. One can argue that the lack of talk about sin and Hell today are one of the reasons we have such lukewarm disciples.

[Benjy (groovythpstr)]

Dan, if hell was so important, why didn't Christ spend more time on it? Christian scholars far smarter than all of us combined are at odds as to whether hell as we think of it is literal or metaphorical. It is real, and will be a horrible, terrible place worse than any of us can imagine.

We are too often defined by what we are against rather than what we are for. Do we spend too much time talking about sin, or not enough? I think we too much emphasis on the sins of others, and not enough on our own sin.

I disagree with your statement that "One can argue that the lack of talk about sin and Hell today are one of the reasons we have such lukewarm disciples." I think its because we too highly value events like this one. Why scare people away from hell, instead of invite them to a loving relationship with our creator?

[david]

Well I guess you are the critics. Proof is in the fruit! Tell me yours to be able to criticize. My wife was saved 7 yrs ago during this drama and denounced drugs and is now one great gift to the body filled with love and passion. I would only pray it does the same for any percentage of the 200 that just rededicated or got saved last week at my church. Praying for those that get converted is much better than criticizing the methods. Please realize if you have a more effective 'net' please let me know about it.

-Pastor David

[Orfe]

I attend at least one passion play a year because I am active at my younger sister's church highschool and at my own college (also a church school). Is this play different? In every passion play I attend with people I don't know I am always worried about the (sometimes comically amateur) portrayal of the life, death, and resurrection of Christ. But the passion plays I attend never tell anyone that they're going to hell, only that Christ lived and died for them and that salvation is available through Him.

[Jonathan Matijevic]

The whole purpose of this play, and others like it, is to show people that hell is real, and all that sin deserve to go there, including myself. But the wonderful revelation of Gods grace and the awesomeness of what Jesus did on the cross means that we do not have to go to hell. We can embrace His love and live for him, not because we are afraid to go to hell, but because we love God soo much for giving us mercy and hope, and delivering us from the punishment of sin.

If you ignore the fact of Hell, and do not mention it, then what do you tell people that Jesus came to save us from. Hell is an important part of Gospel message, and Jesus spoke about Hell quite a lot, more then anyone else, because He knows how bad it is, and He does not want anyone to go there. If we ignore Hell, then sin does not seem like such a big issue, and the salvation that Jesus gives is for nothing. You can not have people embrace the full love of God without knowing what it is that God has delivered them from.

[john]

Obviously this isn't going to be accepted by everyone. There will always be those hard-hearted ones that are under conviction. But my question is, to those of you who disapprove, how could you slander something that has done so much good. This drama was put on by 2 churches in my community, and in each one over 300 people got saved. That should show you that this drama is real and effective. And to you all who think it's embarassing and "cheesy" obviously it's just how your church portrayed it because the one i went to was entirely life changing-even to a christian like me-

[MissE]

hey everyone. this is the 20th site i have found about this play, and the first one involving a bit of dialogue, which is suprising to me. the similar production in the states, hellhouse, has had a lot more discourse. Although the documentary helped to get it out to a wider audience, rather than more people who were christians already. i know that these productions boast a lot of saved souls but there are still lots of people in the general public who have never heard of it. mostly i think that heaven's gates and hell's flames is a representation of the sadistic side of christians, since who are you to condemn anyone to hell, according to your truth. telling someone, or in this case, acting it out frame by frame, that individuals are going to burn in torment eternally is no small thing to declare. did satan come up and give you a multimedia presentation on how it would be like down there? how do you know anything about it? i know, i know, it says this and that in the bible, but still, the writers of the script are still just giving us their interpretation. I am interested in doing more research on the history of this play. hell and satan have significant roles in many religions all over the world, and it is important in this case not to forget that. i interpret this play as potentially a really dangerous promotion for intolerance for people who are jewish, hindu, or muslim, (well just to name a few) although perhaps according to them you too will be roasting over a spit someday. i still think that hghf is a nicer version to hell house, which offended me greatly. peace y'all

[JR]

I just saw "Heaven's Gates - Hell's Flames" last night and left with mixed feelings. On the up side, it did present a graphic view of how it could be to make it the gate's of Heaven only to be taken away to an eternity of being away from God. Also, the play director did not say which "church" was the correct one, just to find one that concentated on Bible study. On the downside, I felt it presented an extreme view of salvation- either all in or all out, and on their terms. The implication that a young child, like 6 or 7, would be cast into hell for not publicly accepting Jesus is pure scare tactic. I grew Catholic with the belief that if you live a good life, live morally and helped your fellow man you stood a good chance of making it or least making it to Purgatory. Also, as MissE said, the play could lead to intolerance of non-Christians, of which Jesus did in fact belong (remember He was a Jew). Also the call to dedicate publicly at such a mass gathering feels to me like the Pharisee at the front of the temple, not the repentant tax collector at the back.(Luke 18:11-14, NKJV).

[amorgan]

ok you guys, ive just got back from appearning in Heavens Gates and i do not have mixed feeling This is the second time i have been in it. at the first show my father my mother my husband two kids and step father came to know Jesus. My mother was at tonights show and helped people to pray and looked after the people who had come foward and given their lives to Christ.The people who do this are there for the Glory of God nothing to do with numbers at the church and they are not told which church to attend as this would also be seen as getting bums on seats..as far as being embarrased i have sometimes had to step out in faith and out of my comfort zone, but if that is what we must do to save our loved ones then so be it. The play is full of God and his spirit and i know it is scary at time that is reality and needs to be told. would you rather it was telling a softly story that would not offend, but also not tell the truth. I for one am all for the play and am grateful for God giving us this tool to let others know about how we can attain heaven. also JESUS is the only way to get there NOT by being good and nice to fellow man. its the later on ow we are judged when we reach heaven. If you havent seen it I recomend you Do.

[Chris]

amorgan -- thanks for stopping by and posting your thoughts. I'm glad that, after participating in HGHF, you remain so positive about it all. The church I used to be at did HGHF twice, and it's been done several times here in our city. LOTS of decisions were made -- so I suppose "seeds" were sown -- but a year after each presentation, the fruit is always the same: virtually no "disciples" have been produced; just lookie-loos who had an emotional experience but who apparently were not interested in following Christ.

I'm not sure is there is a totally appropriate response to all of this -- but I fear we dishonor the Kingdom by pretending this method is fruitful when in fact it is not.

[amorgan]

hi chris, last night was the last performace of hghf and brought over the three nights 23 people to christ. I understand what you mean about people going foward because they have been moved by the play but then do not go on to become disiples. I do not believe we dishonour god by trying to explain the facts about salvation, even if it is a very simle media. As a church we feel that this is only the first step. these people are like babies to the spiritual world and need feeding. we wouldnt give birth to a baby and then leave it to fend for inself. All the people are invited to a buffet the week after where thay can get to know others in the church and ask question, they are than encouraged to come to a weekly group usually the START group, and then on to other groups, CHRISTIANITY EXPLORED, FREEDOM IN CHRIST and asked if they would like to start attending a HOUSE GROUP> Many of the people who give their lives at a HGHF play have been looking for God and when they are ready to commit we are there as a family to help them grow. I do accept that there are a few that seem to not go back into the world without any further searching. but who are we to say what is in their hearts, we can only do our best to tell them the truth, GOD takes care of the rest.

[amorgan]

just to add the fruit of my own parents commitment to christ is a success in its self. I the play only brings one individual to Christ then its worth the hard work as far as im concerned

[Erik]

Hey right on amorgan. I went to this play i think 5 years ago, maybe 6. The Lord had been pursuing me and it was there that he finally broke me. I went up front with many others and gave my life to Christ. Since then i have pursued Christ with all I have although it took me a while to completely step out of my old life. There seem to be many people who are critical of the play. I am now married to a beautiful woman who loves the Lord and i want to take her to see the play because i have not gone to see it since i received Christ there 5 or 6 years ago. As far as the critics go, it is very easy to find fault in things, one need not look anywhere else but a mirror, we are called in the body to not be divisive. Now as i said i don't know all the theological and doctrinal positions represented in the play, which is part of the reason i am interested in seeong it again. As far as being discipled and the play not doing a good job of it i have a few comments. First of all, as Paul said in Corinthians, we are a body made up of many parts, if i have the privelage of leading someone to Christ, God may be done using me in that person's life and bring someone else in their life to disciple them. That does not mean i am an idiot who doesn't know what i'm talking about, that was just how god used me in their life. Second, I think of the parable of the sower in Matthew. Some of the hearts that have the Word sprinkled in the soil through HEAVENS GATES AND HELLS FLAMES may be rocky soil or be choked out by the weeds. I can say from my own experience that i was lead to Christ by the ministry of heavens gates and hells flames and am walking strongly with the Lord. I am almost through my educvation at Moody Bible Institute, have a strong healthy marriage to a woman who loves the Lord, and have a precious daughter on the way whom i will raise to know of the Lord. God used HGHF in my life and i believe continues to use it in the lives of many people.

[erik Thordarson]

Oh yeah one more thing,
I just cited 2 scriptures. If we are going to be critical of something, lets hold it up to scripture for the critique, not our own fallen opinions.

[Chris]

amorgan --

I'm glad that, while conceding the inherent problems with outreach efforts like HGHF, you and your church are being very proactive in attempting to overcome them. It's a blessing to see that you seem to have a well thought through plan. May God mightily bless it!

[David]

Does not the Bible tell us that a tree is known by its fruits? Given the immensity of God's intellect and understanding, couldn't He come up with something a little less sadistic to deal with the broken spiritual state of humanity?

[MARY D]

WE HAVE PUT THE DRAMA ON SEVERAL TIMES AND MANY ACCEPTED CHRIST AS SAVIOR, I BELIEVE MANY WILL BE SAVED THROUGH THE LOVE OF CHRIST AND SOME WILL BE SAVED THROUGH FEAR OF DYING LOST AND GOING TO HELL, IT PLAINLY SHOWS BOTH SIDE PEOPLE CAN RELATE TO THIS DRAMA BECAUSE THEY CAN SEE THERE OWN PERSONAL STORY IN IT.I BELIEVE THE HOLY SPIRIT HAS TO DRAW THEM TO COME FORWARD TO MAKE A LIFE CHANGING COMITTMENT.I PERSONAL THINK GOD FOR THIS MINISTRY. THE PEOPLE WHO GET SAVED THROUGH THIS DRAMA COME FROM OTHER CHURCHES, AS LONG AS THEY GO TO A BIBLE BELIEVING CHURCH WHERE THEY PREACH AND TEACH JESUS CHRIST AS THE ONLY WAY TO GOD / HEAVEN.THEN WE WILL HAVE DONE WHAT CHRIST HAS WANTED US TO DO. PRAY FOR US SO MANY MORE WILL BE SAVED AND HEAVEN WILL ENLARGE ITSELF INSTEAD OF HELL. THANKS