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October 23, 2005

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the mennonites constantly talk against both materialism and patriotism.

so do some others, like quakers, amish, some of the other anabaptist groups.

they are not the majority but they are there.

1. Are materialism and ethnocentric patriotism among the idolatrous pursuits of many American Christians?

Without a doubt. We have a long history of entwining theology and godliness with material "progress" and American "success." Manifest Destiny is an obvious example. I'm reading On Paradise Drive by David Brooks, and he touches on these phenomena noting that they have recurred for three centuries. (I'm half-way thru the book, but so far recommend it.)

2. What other sources of idolatry, if they exist, should American believers be even more concerned about?

Given the current political and economic climates, I can't think of any that would supercede these two. Perhaps I'd put an entertainment ethos in with these two.

3. Are reform leaders within the body of Christ (including the Emerging Church) sufficiently aware of the idolatries the Church has embraced and/or struggled with in the past?

Idolotry doesn't exist in the EC; McLaren and Pagitt have said it's been eliminated. ;-)

Seriously, I can't speak to our knowledge of history, but I think there is an awareness of our present idolatries... at least among those I read and with whom I interact. For example, there is a receptiveness to minority voices and a concern for justice that extends beyond the interpresonal to the societal and global. Also, the EC frequently gets lumped into the political left in part because of it's voice on the environment, the poor and war in Iraq.

Now, being aware of the problems and addressing the problems are two diffeent things. While the former seems pretty wide-spread, the latter is just beginning to get its feet.

4. Are we passing on these idolatries to the next generation and if so, do we have a clear sense of what must be done to end the cycle and prevent their perpetuation?

As I alude to in #3, if we fail to progress beyond awareness into action, then we cannot help but pass on the idolatries.

Bald Man, you mentioned:

"Perhaps I'd put an entertainment ethos in with these two."

I'd agree. And I'm also beginning to wonder if entertainment and materialism are both part of something bigger. Are you, by chance, familiar with the work of Jacques Ellul entitled, "The Meaning of the City"?

Chris,

When I think of 'Our Idolatries' this is what comes to mind...

Education = Qualification for ministry, rather than Vocation/Calling = Qualification.

Building = Church a where rather than
Church = People a 'who' that is called out and set apart

Churches desire numbers via the Attractional Approach rather than genuine disciples via the Incarnational approach

The Bible as information rather than the Bible as Formational tool that leads us to the Logos Jesus our God.

And one specifically for the ED or Pomo. Newness may = authenticity or it may = fad

Peace

LYB

Seraphim

Are you, by chance, familiar with the work of Jacques Ellul entitled, "The Meaning of the City"?

I am not, and unfortunately it sounds unlikely that my library carries it. What's the gist?

Also, what is the "something bigger" that you suspect lies beneath entertainment and materialism?

Chris, I know I already commented, but I'd like to add another 'idolatry'. Pastor as CEO leader of the church and 'entertainer' where the congregation are an 'audience' that rarely if ever 'participates'.

Paul said in Corinthians "When you gather for worship, each one of you be prepared with something that will be useful for all: Sing a hymn, teach a lesson, tell a story, lead a prayer, provide an insight." (i Cor 14:26)

LYB

Seraphim

A very reasonable post. Nothing I can disagree with. I feel sometimes that our current society has an abundance of Don Quixotes or Madame Bovarys, or that our cultural machinery has a predilection to create in the minds of people false and harmful conceptions of reality.

Bald Man, it's Ellul's book on "The Meaning of the City" (he's a French theologian)that has me wondering if these idolatries are part of something bigger. His book is, in essence, a theology of "the city" -- a fascinating look at what drives humanity to build and gather themselves into cities, and in turn, the effects that cities have on humanity -- not just socially, politically, or financially, but spiritually. If I'm reading him correctly, Ellul would see consumerism, materialism, and a host of other things as symptomatic of the value and power we ascribe to city life (and I believe his view is that we are influenced by the culture of the city whether or not we live in one).

Anyway, Ellul has some interesting ideas and I was just curious is you had encountered any of this before.

Seraphim, I would agree with your thoughts on church CEO's and entertainers... in part, that's what I had in mind when I pointed to:

"and the veneration of high-profile Christian celebs."

Good questions... I reply with the title of a book that made a decisive difference in the course of my life and a few others whom I know: "Saving the Appearances, A Study in Idolatry" by Owen Barfield.

He frames a conception of idolatry that is at once rather difficult to grasp... yet in that very difficulty one senses the pervasive effects of an idoltry which is already working deeply into our lives unawares.

Idolatry is not easily noted or passed-off because one of the results of idolatry is in us... we ourselves are affected and since what makes idolatry dangerous is that it relates us to unreality or emptiness and we in turn become like that.

In brief he says that idolatry makes the image into a desired object... but this definition hangs much on the meaning of "image" and "object." Anyway, I've been thinking about his work for years and still find it fruitful.

All the best wishes to you and the friends on this thread.

If I'm reading him correctly, Ellul would see consumerism, materialism, and a host of other things as symptomatic of the value and power we ascribe to city life (and I believe his view is that we are influenced by the culture of the city whether or not we live in one).

Interesting. It sounds like Ellul would argue that the city, in general, has a corrupting effect on people. If so, this adds a new layer to Revelation's image of God's Holy (redeemed?) City.

Ok Chris, hear me out on this one. I read the summary and user reviews of Ellul's book on "The Meaning of the City". If I understand it properly, he is really saying that cities are bad things, b/c in essence they are the pinnacle of man's acheivement. I was really getting into at first.

And then I started thinking, God doesn't hate cities. Even if they do represent some things bad or evil, they also represent some good things.

I was thinking about this topic, how we view God's view of cities, when watching Batman Begins. One character wants to destroy Gothum b/c it has become so corrupt. But Bruce Wayne sees the goodness and potential lying below the corruption, much like his biblical counterpart Abraham.

Maybe this is also why I am no longer supportive of the death penalty. It's much easier to purge society of wrong doers than to fulfill the vision God paints through the scriptures of restoration.

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