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October 17, 2005

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The truth is that we probably do depend on our own education and technology more than we care to depend, and it does lead us to become a more arrogrant and Sophisticated people.

I think most people would be able to identify themselves in one of the 2 lawyers in The Exorcism of Emily Rose. One was a Christian, but didn't believe in anything supernatural or what couldn't be explained. And the other was an agnostic that did believe in the supernatural.

Chris, maybe this post is a modern day example of outsiders acting like insiders!

i have mixed feelings on this one.

one the one hand, i have great compassion for sick people and i love to pray for them.

on the other hand, i generally see churches who emphasize healing go too far, and they end up alienating anyone who remains sick after receiving prayer.

it's a tough balance, apparently.

I think there are more questions to ask about this issue. Coming from a Vineyard background, I have spent years in a world-view that accepts that Jesus can, and does, heal today.

My struggle is with understanding healing that happens outside of western medicine, and outside of an overtly-Christian church. I now have friends who practice "healing arts", some of whom are Christians and some of whom are not. The similarities between much of what happens in these healings and what I have experienced in years of Vineyard healing-prayer experiences have shaken much of my world view.

This is one of the very issues that contributed to my interest in emerging church descriptions of "generous orthodoxoy". In the eighties, we would have labeled all these non-western healing arts as "New Age" and a threat. That judgemental attitude just didn't sit right with me at this stage in my life.

In the eighties, we would have labeled all these non-western healing arts as "New Age" and a threat.
We've been taught to see God's work as too limited. He cares for all people, his spark is to be found everywhere. That he heals under different circumstances, I have no trouble accepting. The church reveals to the world its true nature, rather than introducing it to something foreign.

That said, I am sure there are instances where healings can be counterfeited to lead people away from God. That is why, as we were alluding to, an incomplete "cure" might be worse than no healing at all, akin to the man whose demons went out from him and then came back to find a more hospitable place than when they had left. And of course, some people will prefer that rather than submitting to God. As we pray for people, we have to try to discern such things.

Bald Man, you raised a very likely possibility:

"Perhaps our disbelief in the miraculous is just further evidence of how our imaginations have been made captive by the empire of rationalism and "progress." "

Very well put. And I think there's a lot of truth in the statement. Somehow, we've surrendered part of the imago dei from our lives, convinced that the rational, along with our trust in scientific methodology are somehow "higher", more advanced, more honorable, and intrinsically more valuable than our daring to dream and believe in the supra-rational. IMHO, it's just one more example of the subtle and often hidden arrogance that plagues our modern, Enlightenment-influenced, individualism-ridden lives. What do you think?

Oh, and thanks for the book recommendation; sounds very interesting.

If I understood the original comment correctly, I was taking it to mean that healing is more than just absence of disease. It's a holistic thing, including one's spirit. You can be cured of a disease and not made a whole person.

Ok, if healing (= a wholistic restoration of the entire person) incorporates curing (=resolution and elimination of a physical or psychological malady), then I'd have to disagree with the notion that you can have healing without curing. Curing is a subset of healing, and it must accompany healing.

On the other hand, if healing relates to the spiritual and curing to the physical and psychological, then one can certainly be present without the other.

Working with the second understanding, what did Jesus do? What did the apostles and early church do? Are there instances of one without the other, or do they always accompany one another?

(I'm digressing from Chris' original question.)

Oh, and thanks for the book recommendation; sounds very interesting.

It's one of the best I've read lately. Well worth buying.

mumcat -- you are certainly right about this:

"After all, God created doctors and medicine as well as priests and prayer."

Such a both-and view is, in part, what I wanted to call some of us back to.

Jamie -- excellent posts! You are right about the phenomenon of "evange-tainment" -- it's embarrassing. But I can't help but think that many of the people who travel to such healing services do so in response to a desperate need. And although Jesus did heal in a "hush-hush" manner (e.g. Mark 5:40-42), he also healed in venues where huge crowds had gathered for such a purpose (e.g. Mark 1:32-34a).

"It takes faith and humility to speak to the body with the authority we have been given and command: "Be healed". "

Another excellent point! It makes me wonder, how many opportunities for healing have been squandered due to nothing more than fear or embarrassment?

"the worldview we have adopted that has severed the integrative relationship between the physical and the spiritual. This false dichotomy insults both God and His Creation, standing as a barrier to healing."

You're certainly on a roll, aren't you? I totally agree with you here.


Gina, MacNutt writes his book from his perspective as a former Roman Catholic priest, who -- as one generally considered an expert in the realm of healing -- is chronologing the demise of the ministry of healing within (what is pretty obvious) the Western Church. Guess that leaves all you Orthodox folks off the hook! :D

However, MacNutt also draws attention to groups (primarily within the scope of the West) who through time have kept the belief and practice of healing alive within the Church. He is not claiming to "discover" some long-forgotten truth or practice from the catecombs of history -- he is rather calling the Church (albeit, the Western Church) to repentance and rediscovery.

Hope that helps.

1) Please note that I tried to formulate my thoughts in questions, so as to score EC points.

ECP's duly credited!

"One was a Christian, but didn't believe in anything supernatural or what couldn't be explained. And the other was an agnostic that did believe in the supernatural.

Chris, maybe this post is a modern day example of outsiders acting like insiders!"

Fascinating thought, Benjy. Hmmmm.

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