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« 2008 AEF Conference: David Neff's Summary | Main | DesertPastor Update... »

October 22, 2008


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This sums up the climate in our churches today. It starts with our denominational leadership. My denomination is the same as yours. All we hear from our leaders is the Maxwell, Willow Creek, Saddleback, North Pointe, Church growth, and Leadership models. I have been on my Conference for several years, and have never heard anything from our leaders about the eucharist, articulating our message of scriptural holiness, and not one meeting about worship. The churches with the praise band and rock and roll worship are idolized. While the churches who practice any sort of traditional or liturgical worship are considered the "bastard children" who just aren't relevant. I hate to sound harsh, but that's the way it is.
The pastors of the biggest churches are the only one's allowed to serve on boards, and the only one's allowed to preach at special events. The business model is worshipped. I have gotten so tired of all the church growth/leadership garbage that is being shoved down our throats.
No wonder people don't want to come to church.

Chris! I would submit people don't need 'church services' people need Church i.e. each other, the body life Sunday thru Saturday.. not just for the few hours on Sunday or Wednesday...




I'm hearing you, brother. And I feel bad for you -- that you're not being given the freedom and the resourcing to reconnect with our ancient/Anglican past as Wesleyans.
Here in Southern California, we Free Methodists experience a different reality. In fact, I encourage you read this article that I posted last year, and then I'd love to hear your response.




I would volley back by asserting that people need the Church in doing life together 24/7 AND in the corporate worship of the body gathered together. We need relationship AND ritual. We need to practice being the church gathered AND the church sent into the world.



I just had a meeting with a fellow pastor, and he told me that he is very disillusioned with the emphasis on what the megachurches are doing. We don't care what Willow Creek is doing. I could care less. Where has our emphasis on the sacraments gone? And I feel the people are noticing how we have veered off course.
Our denominational leadership worships the business model. And people are seeing that the Church has turned into nothing more than an irrelevant gathering place for the select few. While our world wastes away in sin.
I'm amused at the so called "relevant" churches. Ever notice the code words such as: "Lead Pastor", "relevant", "relational", "contemporary". Take away their topical messages and their rock and roll music, and they will leave and travel down the street to the next church that gives them what they want. So much for making disciples.

Maybe we all need to go back to worshiping in catacombs. The true believers will be there, regardless the cost. I have worshiped with believers who did so at the risk of imprisonment. I highly recommend that type of worship setting. It does put things into their proper perpective.
When you've had enough of the fluff and airy stuff - just simply worship in Spirit & truth. You can keep your orchestra. Give me Christ.


My wife and I had this same conversation just yesterday about our church, which we have been members of for over two decades. I hate to sound desperate, but I fear that many evangelical churches have so disconnected from Christianity's rich past (music, traditions, etc.) that we are in danger of becoming totally irrelevant. God help us.

Charlie -- I appreciate your comments, which make me wonder if more and more people are choosing to see the practice of Christianity as a "diversion" in their lives rather than a "solution"?


The Baby Boomers seem to be attacked to the Willow and Saddleback models, but those models are based on rebellion. Throw out all the old symbols (pulpits, communion tables, crosses, etc), and become "all things to all peoples". And now they are finding out that isn't attracting the other generations. People want symbols that remind them of the presence of God.
I was talking to an Episcopal priest the other day, and he told me that the younger people are the one's attracted to the liturgical worship. Seems to be just backwards from what is being shoved down our thoats.

yeap! the world ain't dumb! it livesd in darkness, but god has placed a desire for truth on ALL men ; He has poured HIs spirit out on ALL flesh.Thankfully!!

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